Legislature(2001 - 2002)

05/18/2002 10:01 AM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE BILL NO. 2003                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to municipal bond reimbursement for                                                                        
     school construction; and providing for an effective                                                                        
     date.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder  MOVED  to  ADOPT  the  working  draft  #22-                                                                   
LS1801\C, Ford,  5/17/02.  There  being NO OBJECTION,  it was                                                                   
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ANNALEE MCCONNELL,  DRIECTOR, DIRECTOR, OFFICE  OF MANAGEMENT                                                                   
AND BUDGET, OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR,  requested that Mr. Jeans                                                                   
of the Department  of Education & Early Development  speak to                                                                   
the handout.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDDY JEANS,  MANGER, SCHOOL  FINANCE AND FACILITIES  SECTION,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT  OF EDUCATION AND  EARLY DEVELOPMENT,  highlighted                                                                   
the handout.  (Copy on File).                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     ·    Existing Debt Reimbursement                                                                                           
     ·    Bonds already approved                                                                                                
          Anchorage $5.6                                                                                                        
          Juneau    $3.3                                                                                                        
          Fairbanks $3.2                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  asked if that  was the amount  that the                                                                   
State would  pay each  year to  the municipalities,  who have                                                                   
borrowed to build schools.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  responded that was  the "condensed" version.   The                                                                   
State reimburses and then they make their actual payments.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft questioned if  the State should  expect                                                                   
to pay  out in  a range  between $80-$100  million dollars  a                                                                   
year over the next ten years.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans clarified that the list  across the top of the page                                                                   
is what  is currently authorized,  anticipating no  change to                                                                   
the current  statute.   It would  be $56  million dollars  in                                                                   
FY03, $58 million  in FY04, $56 million in  FY05, $56 million                                                                   
in  FY06, $58  million  in FY07,  $53  million  in FY08,  $46                                                                   
million  in  FY09,  $46  million in  FY10,  and  $45  million                                                                   
dollars in FY11.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  noted that the State  should anticipate                                                                   
paying  between $45-$60  million  dollars each  year for  the                                                                   
next ten years and that would be the urban portion.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans agreed that was correct.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Mulder  interjected   that  that  the   "extended"                                                                   
authorizations had been extended  in exchange for giving cash                                                                   
to the rural schools.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jeans explained  that  through those  mechanisms,  there                                                                   
were allocations for the rural schools.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder emphasized  that the  legislation was  not a                                                                   
"benefit" to  the urban  schools or the  rural schools.   The                                                                   
rural schools would be paid one time.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft requested  clarification of what is paid                                                                   
each year  for the  urban school  debt reimbursement  and the                                                                   
average of the last ten years paid to the rural schools.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder pointed  out that during the  last ten years,                                                                   
over  $500  million  dollars  has been  given  to  the  rural                                                                   
schools and $700 million dollars for the urban schools.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans interjected  that he did have a schedule  which the                                                                   
Department  prepared  indicating  FY94  through  FY03.    The                                                                   
average  in that time  period was  approximately $49  million                                                                   
grant  funding dollars,  which  sometimes includes  municipal                                                                   
school districts.  Using the debt  reimbursement program, the                                                                   
average is approximately $87 million dollars annually.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  pointed out  that the  debt reimbursement  program                                                                   
operates like  a home mortgage.    What is authorized  in the                                                                   
debt reimbursement  is the principle  amount of  the project,                                                                   
however,  what is actually  reimbursed  is the principle  and                                                                   
interest at 70% over a 20-year  period.  Mr. Jeans emphasized                                                                   
that the two programs are very different.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hudson  pointed  out that  historically,  the                                                                   
State  has  authorized  98% of  rural  construction.  Usually                                                                   
through  the grant  programs,  it is  about  70%, making  the                                                                   
communities responsible for the additional 30%.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans explained that through  the grant program, there is                                                                   
a tiered  scale for  participating level  shares.   The Rural                                                                   
Education Attendance  Area (REAA)  paid 98% of  their funding                                                                   
and received  a 2% local  match.  The  scale also  goes down,                                                                   
based  on municipality's  property  wealth per  child.   Some                                                                   
municipalities  only  contribute  a  5%  contribution.    The                                                                   
difference  between  the  two   programs  is  that  the  debt                                                                   
reimbursement is  a fixed amount,  70% State funding  and 30%                                                                   
local funding,  or whatever  the ratio was  at the  time that                                                                   
the legislation was passed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hudson  commented that  the  system has  been                                                                   
fair and balanced.   In urban areas, the  municipalities have                                                                   
had to be prepared to float the mechanism.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder asked  if only the urban areas  were included                                                                   
in the existing debt reimbursement.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  replied that  the debt  reimbursement program  was                                                                   
established for municipalities that have bonding capacity.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder  interjected that the rural  schools had been                                                                   
included in that.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  clarified that  he makes  the distinction  between                                                                   
municipal school  districts and  the REAA's.   The Department                                                                   
of Education  & Early Development  has a clear  definition of                                                                   
the role between urban versus rural.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder argued that there  are rural schools that are                                                                   
receiving debt reimbursement.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. McConnell  interjected  that the opposite  was also  true                                                                   
and  that  there  have  been  urban  schools  funded  through                                                                   
grants.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  inquired  if  there  was  a  statement                                                                   
available of what HB 2003 would accomplish.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder responded  that there  is no  linkage in  HB
2003  other  than  that debt  reimbursement  would  not  pass                                                                   
unless the general obligation (G.O.) bonds pass.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  asked if  the  Kasalli  case had  been                                                                   
addressed in the proposed legislation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder  replied that case  had been addressed  in HB
2002 with the G.O.  bonds.  That was the only  linkage he was                                                                   
willing to consider.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  asked if in the future,  there would be                                                                   
some  relationship   between  how  much  was   built  in  the                                                                   
municipalities versus  in the REAA's.   He commented  that it                                                                   
would not matter if it were 4  or 5 years, since there was no                                                                   
linkage.  He asked what the other aspects of the bill were.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder explained  that  the two  major  differences                                                                   
were:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     ·    Allowing the organized boroughs to bond for public                                                                    
          facilities for schools with the limited time of                                                                       
          three years; and                                                                                                      
     ·    Allows areas to receive 70% reimbursement if they                                                                     
          work with the Department of Education & Early                                                                         
          Development list.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  clarified that under  HB 2003, the  municipalities                                                                   
that have  a population more than  1,000 would not  be placed                                                                   
on the  Department's list but  the debt projects  would still                                                                   
be under the Department's review  if they want to get the 70%                                                                   
reimbursement.    The  legislation  would  provide  that  for                                                                   
municipalities  with more than  1,000 resident population  on                                                                   
the Department's Capital Improvement Project (CIP) list.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder  added that  the  legislation  allows for  a                                                                   
percentage of local contribution.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  explained that in the  rural areas, it  amounts to                                                                   
2% and in the smaller municipalities it would amount to 5%.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder  asked if  during FY02, would  any not  be at                                                                   
2%.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans stated not on the current list.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder  pointed out that  the urban areas  would pay                                                                   
for  30%-40%  of  their  contribution  while  and  the  rural                                                                   
schools would pay only 2%.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  McConnell requested  to outline  benefits  of the  large                                                                   
districts and how they differ  from the current system.  Some                                                                   
of the  larger districts have  had difficultly  with projects                                                                   
they are interested  in.  She provided examples  of the Eagle                                                                   
River and Juneau  Douglas High School.  In  those two places,                                                                   
the district  would  like to size  their school  for a  "time                                                                   
out" into the  future, knowing that their  student population                                                                   
will be growing.  However, the  amount of the school projects                                                                   
will  not  fit with  what  is  currently allowed  within  the                                                                   
statute.     In  those   situations,   the  State  pays   the                                                                   
reimbursement on  the portion that would be  eligible through                                                                   
statute and the community is then  free to pay the additional                                                                   
amount.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. McConnell pointed out that  the advantage is that they no                                                                   
longer would be  placed on the priority list,  and would then                                                                   
be eligible to  receive reimbursement as a  percentage of the                                                                   
entire  project.   She  referenced  Page  8, Line  28,  under                                                                   
existing  statute,  $77.8  million   dollars  authorized  for                                                                   
existing projects  and $14.571  million dollars  provided for                                                                   
school districts.   The legislative  process was  intended to                                                                   
establish how much could be available.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
She  pointed out  that  Anchorage  was provided  $78  million                                                                   
dollars worth of  projects.  When Anchorage went  out for the                                                                   
bonds  in April,  they submitted  under  that provision;  and                                                                   
now, Fairbanks will  be going out to vote in  October through                                                                   
a different provision.  Given  the date change listed on Page                                                                   
8, Line 26, and in the event that  Fairbanks does not receive                                                                   
voter  approval,  that  district  would like  to  receive  an                                                                   
extension.  At present time, each  school district is allowed                                                                   
to go  out for a  certain amount of  bond money and  then the                                                                   
State provides for the debt reimbursement.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder  questioned how  the Administration  proposed                                                                   
to  pay  for  the  obligations   associated  with  the  rural                                                                   
schools.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. McConnell replied that under  the linkage proposal, it is                                                                   
assumed it  could be addressed  though cash or  a certificate                                                                   
of participation (COP) mechanism.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Bunde asked if  there had  been a statewide,  per                                                                   
capita capital cost per student determination made.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jeans  advised that  the Department had  not yet  done an                                                                   
analysis under that format.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  McConnell  requested  an   opportunity  to  explain  the                                                                   
linkage concern.   She  noted that the  issue had  never been                                                                   
discussed on the House side.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Williams interrupted  Ms.  McConnell, pointing  out                                                                   
that "linkage"  was not  included in the  House version.   He                                                                   
stated  that  it  was  his  intent  that  the  House  Finance                                                                   
Committee  creates a  version as  close to  the original  one                                                                   
passed from this Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  McConnell   asked  the  place  in  which   a  discussion                                                                   
regarding the linkage concept could take place.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Williams advised  that  could occur  on the  Senate                                                                   
side  through  the Senate  version.    On the  House  Finance                                                                   
Committee  side, there  will be no  discussion regarding  how                                                                   
the linkage proposal operates.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  McConnell   voiced  concern  that  there   is  confusion                                                                   
regarding  linkage  details.    It is  difficult  to  conduct                                                                   
important  public   policy  discussions  when   there  is  no                                                                   
opportunity  to ask  questions  about how  a proposed  system                                                                   
would operate.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder  argued  that the  House  Finance  Committee                                                                   
members understand  the linkage issue.   The handout  will be                                                                   
discussed during the caucuses meetings.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hudson   invited  Ms.  McConnell   to  submit                                                                   
written  information  regarding  the linkage  proposal.    He                                                                   
acknowledged that he could use that information.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder MOVED  to report  CS  HB 2003  (FIN) out  of                                                                   
Committee with  individual recommendations  and with  the new                                                                   
fiscal note.  Representative Croft OBJECTED.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  commented  that  the fact  that  there                                                                   
could  not  be a  linkage  discussion  in the  House  Finance                                                                   
Committee was very disturbing.   What is occurring in HB 2003                                                                   
would be  giving all the  flexibility to the  urban/municipal                                                                   
areas.  It would not confine them  to the regulations of what                                                                   
the schools look  like.  "All of the room" has  been given to                                                                   
the urban  areas and only  a "linkage" conditional  effective                                                                   
date   to   one   bond  payment   to   the   rural   schools.                                                                   
Additionally,  no  mechanism  has been  established  to  fund                                                                   
rural schools  in the  on-going years.   He claimed  that the                                                                   
Committee was  trading an overall reform that  benefits urban                                                                   
Alaska for a one time, fairly big, chunk for rural Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  stated that  linkage  is about  fixing                                                                   
both  systems, which  is what  HB  2003 needs.   That  action                                                                   
would exasperate the Kassali case.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  claimed that  in  the  case, when  the                                                                   
judge noticed  the two different systems, he  criticized that                                                                   
there  were  two  different  ways   of  funding  being  done.                                                                   
Linking together  the two different  systems must  happen and                                                                   
there must  be some relationship  between those  two systems.                                                                   
It is  much better  to have  two systems  that recognize  the                                                                   
difference with some linkage between the two.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  stressed that the proposed  bill is not                                                                   
close  to the  bill  that was  in Committee  at  the time  of                                                                   
adjournment.  The  proposed bill is everything  that an urban                                                                   
center would  want and nothing  for rural Alaska.   When that                                                                   
is tied to a major construction  package, it is a receipt for                                                                   
disaster.   HB  2003  is not  fixing  the system,  by  rather                                                                   
placing  a heavy rural  bond structure  on  that system.   He                                                                   
warned  that the  urban  portion was  being  "masked" by  the                                                                   
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft addressed  previous discussion regarding                                                                   
the various percentages.  He stated  that there is no base to                                                                   
provide such information.  It  is important to recognize that                                                                   
there should  be sliding  scale systems on  how much  a local                                                                   
area can pay.  When funded as  a unit and linked, it could be                                                                   
a fair  system.  The correct  funding mechanism was  left out                                                                   
of the proposed legislation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Croft   stressed    that   HB   2003   would                                                                   
institutionalize  the  difference  and  "set  in  stone"  the                                                                   
reason for the entire problem.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft commented  that he did not know what the                                                                   
intended  negotiating   stance  would   be.    The   proposed                                                                   
legislation  will be a  "major step backward".   It  does not                                                                   
structurally change the way that rural schools are funded.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Williams  noted that everyone was not  supportive of                                                                   
the negotiations and  that it was his intent to  get the bill                                                                   
where it was important to be.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder noted  that he  did not care  if there  were                                                                   
bonds this year  or not.  He  added that he would  be just as                                                                   
happy if HB 2002 and HB 2003 did not go forward.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Mulder stated that he  "took exception" to the point                                                                   
made by Representative Croft that  HB 2003 was a "slap in the                                                                   
face" to  the rural areas.   He asked how could  $150 million                                                                   
dollars for  construction in rural  Alaska, be a slap  in the                                                                   
face.   He stated  that the  proposed system  was a  balanced                                                                   
approach and  that it  is a "sweetheart  deal" for  the rural                                                                   
areas.    It will  translate  to  between  $100-$200  million                                                                   
dollars of projects for the urban areas.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Mulder  added  that  there were  no  amendments  to                                                                   
incorporate the linkage language.   With no amendments, there                                                                   
will be no discussion.  The proposed bill is a fair and                                                                         
balanced approach.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR:      Bunde, Foster, Harris, Hudson, Lancaster,                                                                        
               Whitaker, Mulder, Williams                                                                                       
OPPOSED:       Croft, Moses                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies was not present for the vote.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (8-2).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CS HB 2003 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do                                                                       
pass" recommendation and with a new zero fiscal note by the                                                                     
House Finance Committee for the Department of Revenue.                                                                          

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